Home > Computer Software Fixes & Patches (Windows) > HP Support: Missing More Than Just Drivers….

HP Support: Missing More Than Just Drivers….

02-May-09 09:13 pm EDT Leave a comment Go to comments
Hewlett-Packard support agents claim that they sell 64-bit PCs, but will only support 32-bit Windows….

”Correct me if I’m wrong, but as this is a 64-bit machine, how is it that HP would sell me such hardware without offering software to support it – particularly given the fact that both the support site and sales literature indicate that Windows Vista 64-bit is supported for this machine?  The fact I originally purchased the machine with the 32-bit OS installed shouldn’t be relevant as to whether 64-bit Vista ought to work – again – especially since support is clearly offered for Vista x64!!!”

I

admit, I can be a little terse with people sometimes.  I’d like to think before my anxiety becomes too apparent, that there has to be a fair bit of provocation though – nobody’s perfect, after all.  But I couldn’t take it this time – and so I’ve decided to share an experience I might otherwise keep to myself with the rest of the world online.

So what provoked me this time?  Well, it has been my observation that when I do a job people almost universally expect it done well.  They have a right to – I’m paid good money to provide programming services, and if I make a mistake, usually there are consequences that can disrupt business pretty dramatically, which ultimately cost more money.  So, in fairness, I expect people I pay for products or services to live up to the standards they set for themselves too; i.e. if a computer is advertised as being a 64-bit machine, I expect Windows Vista x64 editions to work fine.  And if they don’t, that the vendor will ensure someone will help me out until the problem is solved.

Hewlett-Packard (HP) Inc. didn’t do that today.  And they haven’t been doing it now for over a week.  Below is a transcript of an effort I made to acquire drivers for my HP Pavilion a6318f desktop PC.  It was sold with Windows Vista x86 (32-bit) edition, but last week I started trying to upgrade it to the x64 (64-bit) edition of the same operating system.  Would love to see some comments (obviously, I’m hunting for sympathy here, but I’ll take it all, so long as it’s constructive) following a read of the transcript:

From: Ross Holder [ross.holder@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 12:19 AM
To: ‘PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM’
Subject: RE: RE: Re: RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support

Please see my comments in-line and highlighted below.  I am extremely puzzled by the difficulty in getting support for this, so please make an attempt at offering a thorough explanation in response to my specific questions.  (The detail I’m looking for has been lacking in prior responses.)

Gratefully,

ross holder |
home: xxx.xxx.xxxx | cell: xxx.xxx.xxxx| office: xxx.xxx.xxxx
ross.holder@gmail.com | http://ross613.spaces.live.com
xxx-345 Clarence St. | Ottawa, ON (Canada) | K1N 5R5

P Before printing this, think about the environment|Avant d’imprimer ceci, pensez à l’environnement

From: PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM [mailto:PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM]
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 11:13 PM
To: ross.holder@gmail.com
Subject: RE: RE: Re: RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support

Hello Ross,

Thank you for writing back to HP Total Care.

Ross, I understand from your email that you are unable to find the drivers for your DVD RW drive after upgrading from Windows Vista 32 bit to Windows Vista 64 bit.

[*** Ross inline:] Correct me if I’m wrong, but as this is a 64-bit machine, how is it that HP would sell me such hardware without offering software to support it – particularly given the fact that both the support site and sales literature indicate that Windows Vista 64-bit is supported for this machine?  The fact I originally purchased the machine with the 32-bit OS installed shouldn’t be relevant as to whether 64-bit Vista ought to work – again – especially since support is clearly offered for Vista x64!!!

I appreciate you searching for the drivers separately, but I insist that you must have drivers available if you offer Vista x64 as a possible configuration for this machine.  Do you not have drivers available at HP to support your own hardware?  At the very least, could you not simply take cdrom.sys, cdrom.inf and any other necessary files from an installed instance of Windows Vista x64 to help me resolve this issue???

I greatly appreciate that you have forwarded your concerns and given me a chance to assist you with this issue. Please be assured that we are here to assist you and resolving your issue is of primary importance to us.

HP does not recommend changing or upgrading the Operating System (OS) to a retail version, as it might lead to missing device drivers which need to be downloaded separately from third party websites, and our support will be limited after such a change. HP and Compaq’s warranty and support cover only the original pre-installed operating system and software.

[*** Ross inline:] I understand this concern – which is what is prompting my inquiry to you now.  The missing drivers are obviously a legitimate concern, since I’m missing a set of drivers  for the CD/DVD-ROM at the moment; and asking you to provide them.  Clearly, you do have a set of compatible drivers in your software library since the OEM Vista x64 edition ships with them.  In my view, it would be really, really silly – to the point of being dishonest – to offer 64-bit hardware and claim that your OEM version of Vista, and ONLY your OEM version of Vista will work with your hardware.  Surely HP can do better than that!

I searched for the specified driver in the HP Website and found no drivers for the device listed under the 64-bit Vista Operating System.

The drive has the drivers only meant for the 32-bit Vista Operating System the computer was shipped in with.

If you need further assistance, please reply to this message and we will be happy to assist you further.

For information on keeping your HP and Compaq products up and running, please visit our Web site
at:
http://www.hp.com/go/totalcare

Sincerely,

Shane J

HP Total Care

***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***

{ticketno:[8024557696]}

***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***

Our advice is strictly limited to the question(s) asked and is based on the information provided to us.  HP does not assume any responsibility or liability for the advice given and shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages in connection with the use of this information.  Always back up your data.
For more information, including technical information updates, please visit our Web site at http://www.hp.com/support.
HP does not require you to sendany financial data in your reply to this email.  As a prudent reminder, do not insert credit card details or other financial information in any e-mail replies.
Original Text

From:

ross.holder@gmail.com

To:

PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM

CC:

 

Sent:

05/02/09 02:32:08

Subject:

RE: Re: RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support

Okay, we need to try this once again…..

I am aware of the existence of Windows Update, HP Support and other pertinent websites.  As the previous discourse on this trouble ticket indicates, I am having trouble finding drivers for the TSSTCorp H653N CD/DVD-ROM which will allow Windows Vista x64 setup to operate correctly.  There is a prompt asking specifically for these drivers, which are not on Windows Update, not on HP Support’s website nor anywhere else I’ve tried.  I am not interested in the firmware upgrade – I simply want the 64-bit drivers for the TSSTCorp H653N CD/DVD-ROM, which you should have.

Please read the above carefully, and understand that I am not looking for anything else – no URLs to other websites nor other information which can’t help me in this situation.  (I am sure you’ll agree if you think carefully, you’ll realize that telling me to goto Windows Update to get 64-bit drivers while using a 32-bit version of Windows Vista is not going to help since Windows Update automatically detects the system you are currently using, and as I am in the process of setting up the x64 version of Vista, Windows Update would only detect the 32-bit Vista edition…which I’m using.  Not to mention, using the URL you provided while using Windows Vista will only result in you being given a message to use Vista’s Windows Update utility from Control Panel – thus making visiting Windows Update via the URL a totally unproductive exercise.)

The best, most direct way to assist me is to simply provide me with the requested drivers or direct me to a website known to have a copy of compatible, 64-bit drivers available.

Thank-you for careful attention to my request and the background to this issue.

ross holder |
home: xxx.xxx.xxxx| cell: xxx.xxx.xxxx| office: xxx.xxx.xxxx
ross.holder@gmail.com | http://ross613.spaces.live.com
xxx-345 Clarence St. | Ottawa, ON (Canada) | K1N 5R5

P Before printing this, think about the environment|Avant d’imprimer ceci, pensez à l’environnement

From: PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM [mailto:PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM]
Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 7:40 PM
To: ross.holder@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Re: RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support

Hello Ross,

Thank you for writing back to HP Total Care.

Ross, I understand from your email that you are unable to find the drivers for your DVD RW drive after upgrading from Windows Vista 32 bit to Windows Vista 64 bit.

Please note that if the DVD RW was shipped with the computer, you can go to the web link provided below and get the updated driver for the same.

www.windowsupdate.com

Note: The above-mentioned URL will take you to a non-HP Web site. HP does not control and is not responsible for information outside of the HP Web site.

Orelse you need to contact Samsung for further assistance. 

We appreciate your valuable time in troubleshooting this issue.

If you need further assistance, please reply to this message and we will be happy to assist you further.

For information on keeping your HP and Compaq products up and running, please visit our Web site
at:
http://www.hp.com/go/totalcare

Sincerely,

Morgan T.

HP Total Care

***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***

{ticketno:[8024557696]}

***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***

Our advice is strictly limited to the question(s) asked and is based on the information provided to us.  HP does not assume any responsibility or liability for the advice given and shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages in connection withthe use of this information.  Always back up your data.
For more information, including technical information updates, please visit our Web site at http://www.hp.com/support.
HP does not require you to send any financial data in your reply to this email.  As a prudent reminder, do not insert credit card details or other financial information in any e-mail replies.
Original Text

From:

ross.holder@gmail.com

To:

PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@mail.support.hp.com

CC:

 

Sent:

05/01/09 23:15:36

Subject:

Re: RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support

Patrick:
Thank you. Further research has revealed that I need to get the TSSTCorp
H653N CD/DVD-ROM (RW) driver as well. In fact, it is actually this driver
which apparently lets setup detect the CD-ROM correctly – and it is required
for setup to work properly also. It seems that the drivers were either
included with the original HP image for 32-bit Vista, but drivers are not
included for 64-bit Vista. Rumour has it that they do exist, so I’m hoping
you folks can point me in the right direction by providing a link to
TSSTCopr H653N drivers that will prove compatible with Vista Ultimate x64
edition.
Thanks again for your prompt assistance!
Sincerely,
ross holder | [The Ross Report]
home: xxx.xxx.xxxx  | cell:xxx.xxx.xxxx | office:xxx.xxx.xxxx
ross.holder@gmail.com | http://ross613.spaces.live.com
xxx-345 Clarence St. | Ottawa, ON (Canada) | K1N 5R5
P Before printing this, think about the environment|Avant d’imprimer ceci,
pensez à l’environnement
Confidentiality Message
This e-mail and its content is confidential: its privileged information is
intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. Any other person is
strictly prohibited from disclosing, distributing or reproducing it. If the
addressee cannot be reached or is unknown to you, please inform the sender
by return e-mail immediately and delete this e-mail message and destroy all
copies.
Avis de confidentialité
Le présent courriel et son contenu est confidentiel: l’information
privilégiée est à l’usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre
personne est par les présentes avisée qu’il lui est strictement interdit de
le diffuser, le distribuer ou le reproduire. Si le destinataire ne peut être
joint ou vous est inconnu, veuillez informer l’expéditeur par courrier
électronique immédiatement et détruire ce message et toute copie de
celui-ci.
2009/4/30 <PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@mail.support.hp.com>
> Top of Form
>
> Hello Ross,
>
> Thank you for contacting HP Total Care.
>
> By reading your Email I understand you want to install Windows Vista 64 BIT
> on to your HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC and you need 64 BIT Drivers to
> complete the setup.
>
> Ross, I am giving a link to download the 64 BIT Drivers for your System.
>
> http://driverscollection.com/?file_cid=40909790922c329b052a52ee364
>
> *Note:* The above-mentioned URL will take you to a non-HP Web site. HP
> does not control and is not responsible for information outside of the HP
> Web site.
>
> *Note:* Clicking on the URL may display an error. If the error occurs
> please copy and paste the URL in the address bar of the browser.
>
> Ross, the drivers are for the GeForce 6150SE nForce 430which is the Chipset
> on your motherboard .
>
> This should resolve the issue. If you need further assistance, please
> reply to this message and we will be happy to assist you further.
>
> For information on keeping your HP and Compaq products up and running,
> please visit our Web site
> at:
> http://www.hp.com/go/totalcare
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Patrick R
>
> HP Total Care
>
>
>
> ***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***
>
> {ticketno:[8024557696]}
>
> ***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***
>
> Bottom of Form
>
> Our advice is strictly limited to the question(s) asked and is based on the
> information provided to us. HP does not assume any responsibility or
> liability for the advice given and shall not be liable for any direct,
> indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages in connection with
> the use of this information. Always back up your data.
> For more information, including technical information updates, please visit
> our Web site at http://www.hp.com/support.
> HP does not require you to sendany financial data in your reply to this
> email. As a prudent reminder, do not insert credit card details or other
> financial information in any e-mail replies.
>
>
> Original Text
>
> *From:*
>
> ross.holder@gmail.com
>
> *To:*
>
> PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM
>
> *CC:*
>
>
>
> *Sent:*
>
> 04/30/09 23:53:09
>
> *Subject:*
>
> RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support
>
>
>
> I very much appreciate your prompt reply. I have just a few more questions
> related to this issue for you. Please find my questions in-line below
> (marked by highlighted text, to make understanding the context of my
> remaining questions clearer).
>
>
>
>
>
> *ross holder | * <http://ross613.spaces.live.com/>
>
> home: xxx.xxx.xxxx | cell: xxx.xxx.xxxx | office: xxx.xxx.xxxxx
>
> ross.holder@gmail.com | http://ross613.spaces.live.com
>
> xxx-345 Clarence St. | Ottawa, ON (Canada) | K1N 5R5
>
> *P **Before printing this, think about the environment|Avant d’imprimer
> ceci, pensez à l’environnement*
>
>
>
> *From:* PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM [mailto:
> PAVILION_SUPPORT_EN@MAIL.SUPPORT.HP.COM]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:42 PM
> *To:* ross.holder@gmail.com
> *Subject:* RE: HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support
>
>
>
> Hello Ross,
>
> Thank you for contacting HP Total Care.
>
> From your email, I understand that you would like to install Windows Vista
> 64 Bit Operating System in your PC in second Partition, at Setup, Windows
> Vista does not detect the Drivers for Hard Drive (SATA), and Internal
> Components (Chipset, LAN and Modem etc) pre-installed by HP and listed in
> C:\HP\Drivers folder.
>
> *[*** Ross inline:] This is correct. I would only add that regardless of
> where I place the drivers, setup lets you specify their location if it can’t
> find them. And I have tried placing drivers in D:\HP\Drivers (since the
> partition in question is D:, not C:) and in other paths – and specified
> those particular paths using the setup UI when prompted – all to no avail.
> *
>
>
>
> I apologize, but, we are not trained on dealing with installation of Retail
> version of Windows Vista 64 Bit OS.
>
> *[*** Ross inline:] That does strike me as a little odd, given that the
> hardware is clearly 64-bit, and this is – after all – an HP product.
> Fortunately, I don’t think that’s a serious issue. To be sure I’m using the
> correct drivers, it would be helpful if I could obtain the original 64-bit
> motherboard drivers. The download site seems to offer an update – but not
> the original drivers. I understand it may well be that there’s no
> distinction between the 32-bit and 64-bit drivers or that the latter are not
> available. In which case, I would still very much like to get the original
> 32-bit drivers for the motherboard. The update offered by the product
> support web site is insufficient for my needs here.*
>
> * *
>
> *Additionally, I would like to obtain separate drivers (again, 64-bit, if
> possible) for the hard drive which came with my PC. It’s not clear to me
> that the support web site is offering the original drivers – again, it
> appears to be a firmware update for the hard drive rather than merely the
> drivers.*
>
> * *
>
> *Can you provide a download URL for these items? To recap, I’m looking
> for:*
>
> · Original HP Pavilion motherboard driver(s);
>
> o 64-bit edition (if available)
>
> o 32-bit edition
>
> · Original Athlon x64 CPU driver(s) (if applicable):
>
> o 64-bit edition (if available)
>
> o 32-bit edition
>
> · Original hard drive drivers (for the hardware that shipped with
> my PC);
>
> o 64-bit edition (if available)
>
> o 32-bit edition
>
>
>
>
>
> However, you may refer to the URL given below to get complete information
> on installing Windows Vista 64 Bit OS in Dual Boot Configuration.
>
>
>
>
> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00815955&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en
>
>
>
> *[*** Ross inline:] I appreciate your providing this URL, but it’s of
> little use to me since I’ve already successfully configured the partition
> space I need and am very familiar with the Windows installation process.*
>
> Note : Clicking on the URL may display an error. If the error occurs,
> please copy and paste the URL in the address bar of the browser.
>
> Though it is for Windows XP and Windows Vista, it works in configuring two
> Windows Vista systems in Dual Boot Setup.
>
> This should resolvethe issue. If you need further assistance, please
> reply to this message and we will be happy to assist you further.
>
> *[*** Ross inline:] Respectfully, I don’t think you understood the issue
> if you believe this advice would “resolve” my problem. To be clear; the
> issue is one of Setup not detecting hardware properly – not a failure
> setting up a partition. Again, the partition space has been successfully
> configured and setup runs normally otherwise. Setup simply can’t find the
> drivers when trying to install Windows Vista Ultimate (x64). I believe
> obtaining the missing drivers will resolve the issue, so will you please
> make them available to me today?*
>
> *And by way of further clarification – I understand you folks aren’t
> trained with supporting the 64-bit editions of Windows Vista. Although I
> could certainly use assistance provided by someone with relevant expertise,
> I can manage on my own properly equipped so I’m not specifically asking or
> expecting support with the installation process. I just need drivers –
> unless you feel there is something else I’m doing which could be causing
> setup to not recognize either the hardware or drivers on my system.*
>
> *Thank you!*
>
> For information on keepingyour HP and Compaq products up and running,
> please visit our Web site
> at:
> http://www.hp.com/go/totalcare
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Nathan B
>
> HP Total Care
>
> ***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***
>
> {ticketno:[8024557696]}
>
> ***Do Not Delete Service Ticket Number***
>
> Our advice is strictly limited to thequestion(s) asked and is based on the
> information provided to us. HP does not assume any responsibility or
> liability for the advice given and shall not be liable for any direct,
> indirect, special, incidental or consequential damages in connection with
> the use of this information. Always back up your data.
> For more information, including technical information updates, please visit
> our Web site at http://www.hp.com/support.
> HP does not require you to send any financial data in your reply to this
> email. As a prudent reminder, do not insert credit card details or other
> financial information in any e-mail replies.
>
>
> Original Text
>
> *From:*
>
> ross.holder@gmail.com
>
> *To:*
>
> HP Support
>
> *CC:*
>
>
>
> *Sent:*
>
> 04/30/09 01:53:31
>
> *Subject:*
>
> HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC e-mail support
>
>
>
> hp e-mail support
> Webform submittal date/time : 30 April 2009 01:52:26 UTC
> language_code : en
> language : English
> Country of Residence : Canada
> product_line : 6J
> product_oid : 3645446
> product_name : HP Pavilion a6318f Desktop PC
> part_number : GX769AAR,GX769AA
> purchase month : 8
> purchase year : 2008
> problem area : installation and setup
> serial number : 3CL80201FN
> operating system : Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 64
>
> Is your computer unable to work with accessory products? Please select all
> that apply. :
> printer
> scanner
> digital camera
> CD/DVD/floppy disk drive
> multimedia games
> accessories (i.e. Joystick)
>
> What type and brand of CD/DVD media do you use? : TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653N
> SCSI CdRom Device
> Was the CD/DVD writer drive built into the computer when you purchased it?
> : yes
> Can you hear sound from the connected speakers? : yes
> Does the display on the music center appear to be working properly? : yes
> Have you connected the music center to your TV, DVD or music system? : no
> problem description : During execution of 64-bit Vista Ultimate setup (i.e.
> booting into the Windows pre-installation environment, called WinPE), setup
> runs successfully until clicking on the "Install NOW" button, following
> which point a dialogue appears claiming hard disk drivers could not be
> located. Acknowledging the dialogue provides an opportunity to specify a
> location for drivers, but placing the HP drivers in a folder doesn’t seem to
> work – setup can’t see the drivers in the specifiedfolder.
>
> Additional background concerning this issue was posted in an article I
> wrote to Microsoft TechNet:
>
>
> http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/itprovistasetup/thread/edff2815-173d-4bbc-b0ec-c4accb8700cb
>
> NOTE: I am what you might call an "expert user". I am currently a senior
> software developer with proficiency in programming with the .NET framework.
> Until recently I worked for Microsoft Corp. working on the Commerce Server
> 2009 product. (I’ve since taken a position with the Government of Canada.)
> troubleshooting : Attempts were made to locate drivers for both the hard
> drives, R/W CD/DVD-ROM and motherboard. These drivers were placed in a
> folder and specified at the setup prompt when the dialogue indicating
> drivers could not be located appeared. None of these efforts had any effect.
>
> setting changes : I have continued to successfully use 32-bit Windows, but
> very much would like to take full advantage of my HP Pavilion desktop system
> by installing 64-bit Windows Vista.
> tech skill : Advanced
> first name : Ross
> last name : Holder
> phone : (xxx) xxx-xxxx
> email : ross.holder@gmail.com
> form url : $emailformprotocol://
> h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/email?product=3645446&lc=en&cc=ca&dlc=en&lang=en&cc=ca
> form country : Canada
>
>
>

And as is obvious, the messages are ordered in reverse-chronological order.  So there has been no additional discourse with HP since Thursday.  Again, comments are welcome – but of even greater value to me would be a solution, in the form of drivers or a URL pointing me in the right direction.

Whatever solution is eventually arrived at, I will be sure to post it here (as is my habit) – assuming one is found.

Additional threads have been started on both HP’s public Desktop PCs support forum and on Microsoft’s TechNet forums, under Windows Vista Setup.  Additional background and details concerning this issue can be found there.

Thanks!

Advertisements
  1. No comments yet.
  1. No trackbacks yet.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Terry Glavin

CHRONICLES

Techno Manor

Geek's Corner

VM.Blog.

an IT blog.. and an occasional rant

Yammer Site Status

Is Yammer down? Offline? Broken? Undergoing scheduled maintenance? When will it be back? Find out here.

jalalaj

A journey full of wonderful experiences

Azure and beyond

My thoughts on Microsoft Azure and cloud technologies

TechCrunch

Startup and Technology News

Ottawa Citizen

Ottawa Latest News, Breaking Headlines & Sports

Targeted individuals's

One Government to rule them all.

Joey Li's IT Zone

Everything about IT

jenyamatya

Unravelling the magik of code...

The Bike Escape

Adventures on a road bike

The Ross Report

Now you know where you need to know more...

Lights in the Dark

A journal of space exploration

ottawatraining.wordpress.com/

Using strength to improve and eliminate injuries.

The Ross Report

Now you know where you need to know more...

Little Girl's Mostly Linux Blog

Nothing to see here. Move along...

David Eedle

Geek, tech, programmer, business owner. Serial starter of things. Occasional finisher. Oh, and please don't call me Dave.

%d bloggers like this: